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Considering buying a ZC33S, but...
Quote from Stan Best on November 21, 2023, 9:57 amThere's the fuel read out. That's after a 40 mile motorway snd A road journey in moderate traffic. It will drop by about 1 mpg after a week of local short trips. It's gone up from 49 mpg when it was delivered. Using cruise control helps. On a Caribbean Island you might struggle to get that sort of number.
There's the fuel read out. That's after a 40 mile motorway snd A road journey in moderate traffic. It will drop by about 1 mpg after a week of local short trips. It's gone up from 49 mpg when it was delivered. Using cruise control helps. On a Caribbean Island you might struggle to get that sort of number.
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Quote from Christopher Khan on November 22, 2023, 2:38 pm@reza_e hey thanks for the feedback.
I expect the auto would be faster, I'm not surprised by that. I have a Tucson with a DCT so I know very well of that clutch slippage you speak of with the DSG. Sometimes it can be so bad that the whole car jerks. One time it cut power on the whole. I liked DCT before I owned one. Living with it isn't bad once you figure it out, but it feels like 2 brains trying to drive one manual car. Its like you're learning how to synergies with the car.
And at that point, its better to just get a manual car, especially for something like this.
I'm really mixed on the whole manual vs auto for this. I know manual is better and I would take it in a heartbeat, but given how strongly my mom feels against manual, I don't know if an auto ZC33S makes much sense, because at that point it feels like an F30 328i would make more sense. They cost the same, its only maintenance.
Super conflicted right now, especially given the cost. Hopefully I figure it out soon.
The good thing is my dad and girlfriend fully supports the manual, but (not to be misogynistic) women are always right and my mom will have final say on it. I know this sounds like family issues more than car issues and I'm sorry for bringing it up in this forum, but I wanted to be transparent of the whole situation.
@reza_e hey thanks for the feedback.
I expect the auto would be faster, I'm not surprised by that. I have a Tucson with a DCT so I know very well of that clutch slippage you speak of with the DSG. Sometimes it can be so bad that the whole car jerks. One time it cut power on the whole. I liked DCT before I owned one. Living with it isn't bad once you figure it out, but it feels like 2 brains trying to drive one manual car. Its like you're learning how to synergies with the car.
And at that point, its better to just get a manual car, especially for something like this.
I'm really mixed on the whole manual vs auto for this. I know manual is better and I would take it in a heartbeat, but given how strongly my mom feels against manual, I don't know if an auto ZC33S makes much sense, because at that point it feels like an F30 328i would make more sense. They cost the same, its only maintenance.
Super conflicted right now, especially given the cost. Hopefully I figure it out soon.
The good thing is my dad and girlfriend fully supports the manual, but (not to be misogynistic) women are always right and my mom will have final say on it. I know this sounds like family issues more than car issues and I'm sorry for bringing it up in this forum, but I wanted to be transparent of the whole situation.
Quote from Christopher Khan on November 22, 2023, 2:43 pm@moyz I actually like the idea of shorter gear ratios. It seems more fun to be able to plow through the gears before hitting 60mph. So now the auto sounds better in that sense. From experience with my Vitara, I think it hits 30mph in 1st, 50mph in 2nd, so 3rd would have 60 in there. Regardless though, auto shifts at like 5500rpm which takes away some of the fun.
But I hear you out on going for the manual if I'm remapping. Can I slap on lets say an intake, bov, downpipe and remove the silencers without a tune safely? I always heard its good to tune a car after modding it, but I'm not sure.
@moyz I actually like the idea of shorter gear ratios. It seems more fun to be able to plow through the gears before hitting 60mph. So now the auto sounds better in that sense. From experience with my Vitara, I think it hits 30mph in 1st, 50mph in 2nd, so 3rd would have 60 in there. Regardless though, auto shifts at like 5500rpm which takes away some of the fun.
But I hear you out on going for the manual if I'm remapping. Can I slap on lets say an intake, bov, downpipe and remove the silencers without a tune safely? I always heard its good to tune a car after modding it, but I'm not sure.
Quote from Christopher Khan on November 22, 2023, 2:46 pm@bruce_b hey thanks, but isn't that a ZC32S?
Still helpful though. I have friends with the ZC32S and I can ask them their gas mileage, then make a formula to correlate it to the gas consumption of a ZC33S with some resources.
@bruce_b hey thanks, but isn't that a ZC32S?
Still helpful though. I have friends with the ZC32S and I can ask them their gas mileage, then make a formula to correlate it to the gas consumption of a ZC33S with some resources.
Quote from Reza Ekarantio on November 23, 2023, 1:05 am@kyanners - I chose auto since there's an off chance that in case of an emergency my family member can operate the vehicle safely. That's probably where your mother concern comes from.
With manual you can slap on LSD mods, from what i heard it's worth the trouble. Intake, BOV and silencers can be done without remapping. Fairly certain need a remap with downpipe but I've seen one without remap, he said it runs fine. I would do panel filter instead of intake as full intake kit shift the powerband to the upper end (from experience), great noise though. What this car really need is a proper connection between engine and chassis, OEM engine mount is very soft. In my experience, stiffer lower engine mount really change the character of the car (for the better as far as driving experience is concern), also serve as a good foundation as it amplify everything that the car make, noise and vibration wise.
@kyanners - I chose auto since there's an off chance that in case of an emergency my family member can operate the vehicle safely. That's probably where your mother concern comes from.
With manual you can slap on LSD mods, from what i heard it's worth the trouble. Intake, BOV and silencers can be done without remapping. Fairly certain need a remap with downpipe but I've seen one without remap, he said it runs fine. I would do panel filter instead of intake as full intake kit shift the powerband to the upper end (from experience), great noise though. What this car really need is a proper connection between engine and chassis, OEM engine mount is very soft. In my experience, stiffer lower engine mount really change the character of the car (for the better as far as driving experience is concern), also serve as a good foundation as it amplify everything that the car make, noise and vibration wise.
Quote from Christopher Khan on November 23, 2023, 3:56 am@reza_e truth be told, that's a fair point I was thinking of myself. If there is an emergency, I'm the only one who can "drive" manual. My family all have manual license, but they haven't driven manual in 20+ years.
Sounds like the car just needs "reinforcement" for being too soft. I don't intend to spend too much on the car, so I would price out everything and see how it goes. But I will for sure consider stiffer lower engine mounts.
From experience, can you give a guess-timate as to how much it would cost to buy and install the LSD and the stiffer lower engine mount?
@reza_e truth be told, that's a fair point I was thinking of myself. If there is an emergency, I'm the only one who can "drive" manual. My family all have manual license, but they haven't driven manual in 20+ years.
Sounds like the car just needs "reinforcement" for being too soft. I don't intend to spend too much on the car, so I would price out everything and see how it goes. But I will for sure consider stiffer lower engine mounts.
From experience, can you give a guess-timate as to how much it would cost to buy and install the LSD and the stiffer lower engine mount?
Quote from Reza Ekarantio on November 23, 2023, 4:48 am@kyanners - Stiffer lower engine mount is one of the cheapest modification you can do. I went with Hardrace, you can also purchase an insert which is even cheaper and milder apparently.
Hardrace - https://www.hardrace.com/Product_detail.asp?id=4250&Car_Make=20&Car_model=59&Car_Type=582&MainType=
Powerflex insert - https://ctc-performance.co.uk/en/powerflex/1720-powerflex-lower-rear-engine-mount-insert-suzuki-swift-sport-zc33s-2018.htmlIn both cases, you will need to remove the stock mount, fairly easy thing to do, about 1 hour worth of labour and very DIYable. For me, just over AUD200 and did the swap myself.
LSD is on the expensive side and will require transmission to be taken out, you will have to find a shop that can do this. CTC sell these, https://ctc-performance.co.uk/en/869-drivetrain
@kyanners - Stiffer lower engine mount is one of the cheapest modification you can do. I went with Hardrace, you can also purchase an insert which is even cheaper and milder apparently.
Hardrace - https://www.hardrace.com/Product_detail.asp?id=4250&Car_Make=20&Car_model=59&Car_Type=582&MainType=
Powerflex insert - https://ctc-performance.co.uk/en/powerflex/1720-powerflex-lower-rear-engine-mount-insert-suzuki-swift-sport-zc33s-2018.html
In both cases, you will need to remove the stock mount, fairly easy thing to do, about 1 hour worth of labour and very DIYable. For me, just over AUD200 and did the swap myself.
LSD is on the expensive side and will require transmission to be taken out, you will have to find a shop that can do this. CTC sell these, https://ctc-performance.co.uk/en/869-drivetrain
Quote from DazzaSport on November 24, 2023, 6:30 pmI wouldn't worry about the ride height. Ok, from an aesthetics point of view - it might not look as good as a lowered car. But, the Swift Sport's party piece is the ability of the car to crush a badly maintained back road at high speed. Having enough suspension travel for this is a benefit.
Countless times I've heard so-called YouTube reviewers complain that it is too soft or too high or rolls to much. But these people do not truly understand what they are talking about.
It is actually DESIRED to have enough suspension travel in the car. It is actually DESIRED to have a certain amount of initial body roll before the car composes itself during any cornering 'moment'.
The Swift Sport - as standard comes lowered compared to the stock car - 15 mm from memory. But, it also has enough suspension travel to allow you to traverse a poorly maintained road at high speed - whilst remaining composed. Similarly, the car actually has superb roll stiffness - but has been tuned to give an initial amount of roll before becoming 'solid' at maximum roll resistance.
This allows the car to have a good ride, at speed - down heavily undulating roads without chucking the car all over the road. But when cornering hard, the suspension / roll stiffness loads up and becomes solid. This is why the car is so confident down a terrible back road at speed, and yet can also corner at high speed and remain composed, predictable and confident.
Remember - a lightweight car does not need rock hard suspension to perform well. Take the Alpine A110 as another example. Overweight performance cars, like most German cars - actually start to fall apart down poorly maintained roads. Those sort of cars feel 'jiggly' on the limit because they've had to be made stiff in order to give them some sort of performance suspension. Great on the autobahn or glass flat roads, but most of the UK's roads are crappy, and 85% of roads you can use the full performance of your car - are back roads. Hence, the Swift Sport is ideally tuned for such roads. A heavier car, with no compliancy in the suspension will lose confidence when the going gets rough. Normally at the point you lose control and fly through a hedge. I've actually seen a few BMW's in my time that have gone for an excursion into a field. LOL.
Further to this. How many car reviews have you seen on YouTube (by proper drivers) have suggested that the best the suspension setting on cars with adaptive dampers - is not 'Race' mode, or sometimes even 'Sport'. Some even suggest that the car is best left in 'Comfort' mode for the best performance on our crappy roads. ???
If you're going to spend a lot of time on track, or the roads near you are of good quality. Then suspension mods are likely warranted.
But, it is my opinion that Suzuki know exactly what they are doing - and the car has been perfectly tuned for UK roads.
My car is completely stock. Stock suspension, stock power. I've had no problem keeping up with supposed faster cars, and in some cases have left quicker cars behind on back roads. No 'more powerful' Fiesta ST, Mk7 or Mk8 has ever left me behind on a back road. I even had a dicing with a 320 HP Vauxhall Insignia VXR down a back road about 2 months ago. That also has 4-wheel drive, an LSD on the back and a 2.8 litre V6 twin turbo engine. The driver was really going for it... and I had to wring out every last horsepower out of my Swift Sport AND YET - this guy could NOT leave me behind. The only thing in my favour was weight. The ZC33S is 975 Kg. The Insignia VXR is a massive 1,825 Kg!
With that, you can understand how the Swift Sport does so well, despite having a (by the book) 180 HP deficit.
An LSD in the Sport? - doesn't need it. It has low weight in the nose and the agility that comes with that - at least when used on the public road. Yes,if you give it maximum throttle with a lot of steering angle out of fast corner / roundabout - it will track wide due to trying to light up the tyres. All you need to do, is give it slightly less than full throttle and it will hang on with the best of them. All due to lightness of weight.
Now, I know I'm not the fastest driver in the world... but I have driven quite a few performance cars in my time... and I can get a bit nuts behind the wheel every now and then. I'm old school. I cut my teeth on old school 80's hot hatches - where you had no power steering, no ABS, not even electric windows or central locking - nothing. I learned a lot by driving a Fiesta XR2 tuned to 135 HP on twin carbs in the 90's. I had some hairy scary moments in that car and some V8 sports cars in the noughties. I've been sideways quite a few times. Even in both Swift Sport's I've owned. So, I may push harder than most on the public road - albeit when the roads are completely empty and conditions are perfect. But for all of my nutiness. I rigorously stick to speed limits around town. I only grow horns when traversing back roads away for other road users.
I know that not everyone is as nuts as I am. But, if you're anything less than nuts behind the wheel - and are not the sort of person that goes looking for the cars handling envelope beyond the level of grip. Then you definitely don't need anything beyond what the stock car comes with.
Just my 2p's worth. I'm rattling on a bit - so I will shut up now! LOL.
I wouldn't worry about the ride height. Ok, from an aesthetics point of view - it might not look as good as a lowered car. But, the Swift Sport's party piece is the ability of the car to crush a badly maintained back road at high speed. Having enough suspension travel for this is a benefit.
Countless times I've heard so-called YouTube reviewers complain that it is too soft or too high or rolls to much. But these people do not truly understand what they are talking about.
It is actually DESIRED to have enough suspension travel in the car. It is actually DESIRED to have a certain amount of initial body roll before the car composes itself during any cornering 'moment'.
The Swift Sport - as standard comes lowered compared to the stock car - 15 mm from memory. But, it also has enough suspension travel to allow you to traverse a poorly maintained road at high speed - whilst remaining composed. Similarly, the car actually has superb roll stiffness - but has been tuned to give an initial amount of roll before becoming 'solid' at maximum roll resistance.
This allows the car to have a good ride, at speed - down heavily undulating roads without chucking the car all over the road. But when cornering hard, the suspension / roll stiffness loads up and becomes solid. This is why the car is so confident down a terrible back road at speed, and yet can also corner at high speed and remain composed, predictable and confident.
Remember - a lightweight car does not need rock hard suspension to perform well. Take the Alpine A110 as another example. Overweight performance cars, like most German cars - actually start to fall apart down poorly maintained roads. Those sort of cars feel 'jiggly' on the limit because they've had to be made stiff in order to give them some sort of performance suspension. Great on the autobahn or glass flat roads, but most of the UK's roads are crappy, and 85% of roads you can use the full performance of your car - are back roads. Hence, the Swift Sport is ideally tuned for such roads. A heavier car, with no compliancy in the suspension will lose confidence when the going gets rough. Normally at the point you lose control and fly through a hedge. I've actually seen a few BMW's in my time that have gone for an excursion into a field. LOL.
Further to this. How many car reviews have you seen on YouTube (by proper drivers) have suggested that the best the suspension setting on cars with adaptive dampers - is not 'Race' mode, or sometimes even 'Sport'. Some even suggest that the car is best left in 'Comfort' mode for the best performance on our crappy roads. ???
If you're going to spend a lot of time on track, or the roads near you are of good quality. Then suspension mods are likely warranted.
But, it is my opinion that Suzuki know exactly what they are doing - and the car has been perfectly tuned for UK roads.
My car is completely stock. Stock suspension, stock power. I've had no problem keeping up with supposed faster cars, and in some cases have left quicker cars behind on back roads. No 'more powerful' Fiesta ST, Mk7 or Mk8 has ever left me behind on a back road. I even had a dicing with a 320 HP Vauxhall Insignia VXR down a back road about 2 months ago. That also has 4-wheel drive, an LSD on the back and a 2.8 litre V6 twin turbo engine. The driver was really going for it... and I had to wring out every last horsepower out of my Swift Sport AND YET - this guy could NOT leave me behind. The only thing in my favour was weight. The ZC33S is 975 Kg. The Insignia VXR is a massive 1,825 Kg!
With that, you can understand how the Swift Sport does so well, despite having a (by the book) 180 HP deficit.
An LSD in the Sport? - doesn't need it. It has low weight in the nose and the agility that comes with that - at least when used on the public road. Yes,if you give it maximum throttle with a lot of steering angle out of fast corner / roundabout - it will track wide due to trying to light up the tyres. All you need to do, is give it slightly less than full throttle and it will hang on with the best of them. All due to lightness of weight.
Now, I know I'm not the fastest driver in the world... but I have driven quite a few performance cars in my time... and I can get a bit nuts behind the wheel every now and then. I'm old school. I cut my teeth on old school 80's hot hatches - where you had no power steering, no ABS, not even electric windows or central locking - nothing. I learned a lot by driving a Fiesta XR2 tuned to 135 HP on twin carbs in the 90's. I had some hairy scary moments in that car and some V8 sports cars in the noughties. I've been sideways quite a few times. Even in both Swift Sport's I've owned. So, I may push harder than most on the public road - albeit when the roads are completely empty and conditions are perfect. But for all of my nutiness. I rigorously stick to speed limits around town. I only grow horns when traversing back roads away for other road users.
I know that not everyone is as nuts as I am. But, if you're anything less than nuts behind the wheel - and are not the sort of person that goes looking for the cars handling envelope beyond the level of grip. Then you definitely don't need anything beyond what the stock car comes with.
Just my 2p's worth. I'm rattling on a bit - so I will shut up now! LOL.
Quote from Christopher Khan on November 26, 2023, 8:25 pm@reza_e I might consider the hardrace depending on if they are available, else I'll go with the insert. But I won't go as far as to do the LSD yet. This is just my first performance car. As much as I would like all the bells and whistles, its just a Swift Sport at the end of the day. I would modify it, but I wouldn't drop no crazy modifications on it, just something to help me enjoy the car.
But still, thanks for the links.
@reza_e I might consider the hardrace depending on if they are available, else I'll go with the insert. But I won't go as far as to do the LSD yet. This is just my first performance car. As much as I would like all the bells and whistles, its just a Swift Sport at the end of the day. I would modify it, but I wouldn't drop no crazy modifications on it, just something to help me enjoy the car.
But still, thanks for the links.
Quote from Christopher Khan on November 26, 2023, 8:32 pm@dazzasport hey you seem to have alot of experience about this. I appreciate the comment.
I'm not going to be racing no crazy performance cars out there. This is just a Swift Sport. Plus, if I was to ever actually race anyone, it would be my friends and I would probably lose given that their cars are tuned BMWs and stuff. May only be able to beat 2 of them since they have NA Subies. Not trying to hate, just reality lol.
Good advice on the LSD. Though interesting because Reza was saying that I should get an LSD. Regardless, it would be too expensive for my liking on this car.
I always liked lightweight cars. It gives off a sleeper energy which I like. Today I went to a car meet and the first thing that caught my eye was a Swift Sport. No aesthetic modifications or anything.
Happy to hear its not low. I was reassured that by many so I'm grateful for that.
Comments like yours gives me lots of reassurance and confidence, so thank you!
@dazzasport hey you seem to have alot of experience about this. I appreciate the comment.
I'm not going to be racing no crazy performance cars out there. This is just a Swift Sport. Plus, if I was to ever actually race anyone, it would be my friends and I would probably lose given that their cars are tuned BMWs and stuff. May only be able to beat 2 of them since they have NA Subies. Not trying to hate, just reality lol.
Good advice on the LSD. Though interesting because Reza was saying that I should get an LSD. Regardless, it would be too expensive for my liking on this car.
I always liked lightweight cars. It gives off a sleeper energy which I like. Today I went to a car meet and the first thing that caught my eye was a Swift Sport. No aesthetic modifications or anything.
Happy to hear its not low. I was reassured that by many so I'm grateful for that.
Comments like yours gives me lots of reassurance and confidence, so thank you!
